Graham Watson, ie Lance Armstrong's personal photographer

[Boyd Speerschneider]

Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?
He chooses not to cover the second week of the Giro in order to cover some
no-name french race all because his boy LA will be there.
WTF?
I'm guessing its all about the bling-bling, as he can probably sell more
photos of LA (to the mainstream press and others) than of the Giro.
What a sad, sad state of affairs.

- Boyd "missing the Giro pics" S.

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?
He chooses not to cover the second week of the Giro in order to cover some
no-name french race all because his boy LA will be there.
WTF?
I'm guessing its all about the bling-bling, as he can probably sell more
photos of LA (to the mainstream press and others) than of the Giro.
What a sad, sad state of affairs.
- Boyd "missing the Giro pics" S.

There are still lots of Giro pic around by better photographers than the
stale Graham cracker. Sirotti is but one who does excellent work. Too bad
Cor Vos is at the Peace Race.

[Marlene Blanshay]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?
He chooses not to cover the second week of the Giro in order to cover some
no-name french race all because his boy LA will be there.
WTF?
I'm guessing its all about the bling-bling, as he can probably sell more
photos of LA (to the mainstream press and others) than of the Giro.
What a sad, sad state of affairs.
- Boyd "missing the Giro pics" S.

There are still lots of Giro pic around by better photographers than the
stale Graham cracker. Sirotti is but one who does excellent work. Too bad
Cor Vos is at the Peace Race.

I know, that bugged me too! It's the Giro! He also left the tour of
Switzerland a couple of years ago and there were no photos of the last
stages.

ANother photographer I like is Yuzuru Sunada, who also left the giro to
cover the WC track in Sydney. However, he may go back to the giro, and he
has a great collection on his website (www.yuzurusunada.com) He recently had
a series of collections including, "Bad Weather", "Crash", and "Legs."I
think the photo I remember the most is one of Fabio Fontanelli after that
horrible crash in the tour in 1994, with a chain ring imprinted on his face!

[Benjamin Weiner]

Post by Marlene Blanshay

Post by B. Lafferty
There are still lots of Giro pic around by better photographers than the
stale Graham cracker. Sirotti is but one who does excellent work. Too bad
Cor Vos is at the Peace Race.

I know, that bugged me too! It's the Giro! He also left the tour of
Switzerland a couple of years ago and there were no photos of the last
stages.

When the new UCI ProTour is implemented, photographers will be
required to cover and complete all three Grand Tours in order
to receive UCI accreditation. No more cherry picking or
skipping races in order to cover so-called "training camps."
A sense of priority and respect for the sport must be foremost.

Furthermore, digital photography will be forbidden, and only
traditional film is permitted as in the days of Merckx. This
will also assist in the fight against copyright violations.
Riders' jerseys will carry UCI symbols and photographs thereof
will be considered property of the UCI (e.g. "work for hire"
under US copyright law), with single-use licenses granted to
UCI-accredited photographers only.

Regards,

Hein Verbruggen

[Richard Adams]

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Marlene Blanshay

Post by B. Lafferty
There are still lots of Giro pic around by better photographers than the
stale Graham cracker. Sirotti is but one who does excellent work. Too bad
Cor Vos is at the Peace Race.

I know, that bugged me too! It's the Giro! He also left the tour of
Switzerland a couple of years ago and there were no photos of the last
stages.

When the new UCI ProTour is implemented, photographers will be
required to cover and complete all three Grand Tours in order
to receive UCI accreditation. No more cherry picking or
skipping races in order to cover so-called "training camps."
A sense of priority and respect for the sport must be foremost.
Furthermore, digital photography will be forbidden, and only
traditional film is permitted as in the days of Merckx. This
will also assist in the fight against copyright violations.
Riders' jerseys will carry UCI symbols and photographs thereof
will be considered property of the UCI (e.g. "work for hire"
under US copyright law), with single-use licenses granted to
UCI-accredited photographers only.
Regards,
Hein Verbruggen

You snipped the following, also very important paragraph:

All photographers will have to undergo UCI drug testing. The use of
stimulants and depressants will be strictly regulated. The following
limits will me imposed over each 24 hour period prior to one day races
or between stages of a tour:

No more than three shots of espresso.
No more than 2 glasses of wine or 3 50cL servings of beer.
(In combination 1 glass of wine will be considered equal to 75cL
beer)
Only UCI approved alcohol-free aftershaves and colognes may be used.

Further, bald or partially bald photographers must wear a cap, to
prevent riders being blinded by reflected light.

[Jeff Jones]

Post by Richard Adams
All photographers will have to undergo UCI drug testing. The use of
stimulants and depressants will be strictly regulated. The following
limits will me imposed over each 24 hour period prior to one day races
No more than three shots of espresso.
No more than 2 glasses of wine or 3 50cL servings of beer.
(In combination 1 glass of wine will be considered equal to 75cL
beer)
Only UCI approved alcohol-free aftershaves and colognes may be used.

The UCI already tried this in the past:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/apr01/apr01specialnews.shtml

Jeff

[Richard Adams]

Post by Jeff Jones

Post by Richard Adams
All photographers will have to undergo UCI drug testing. The use of
stimulants and depressants will be strictly regulated. The following
limits will me imposed over each 24 hour period prior to one day races
No more than three shots of espresso.
No more than 2 glasses of wine or 3 50cL servings of beer.
(In combination 1 glass of wine will be considered equal to 75cL
beer)
Only UCI approved alcohol-free aftershaves and colognes may be used.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/apr01/apr01specialnews.shtml
Jeff

How long did it take you to break free of the jelly-babies?

[Dan Connelly]

Post by B. Lafferty
There are still lots of Giro pic around by better photographers than the
stale Graham cracker. Sirotti is but one who does excellent work. Too bad
Cor Vos is at the Peace Race.

From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is better than any of Watson's work
there.

thanks,
Dan

P.S. Obviously, Watson's following the money. As Brian points out, there's plenty of
competition at the Giro. No problem with that.

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by B. Lafferty
There are still lots of Giro pic around by better photographers than the
stale Graham cracker. Sirotti is but one who does excellent work. Too bad
Cor Vos is at the Peace Race.

From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is better

than any of Watson's work

Post by Dan Connelly
there.
thanks,
Dan
P.S. Obviously, Watson's following the money. As Brian points out, there's plenty of
competition at the Giro. No problem with that.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

[Dan Connelly]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is better
than any of Watson's work
there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

[Tom Kunich]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is better
than any of Watson's work
there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the people
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

[Dan Connelly]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is

better

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
than any of Watson's work
there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the people
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

Watson's my favorite. It's hard to beat shots like:
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04giroSt5


And some discrete cropping on his podium kiss shots:
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04romandieSt3

Dan

P.S. encouraging:
Loading Image...

[Robert Chung]

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bushjobapproval.png

I had to extend the left axis to handle the most recent polls. The old
plot is:
Loading Image...

[Dan Connelly]

Post by Robert Chung

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bushjobapproval.png

I had to extend the left axis to handle the most recent polls. The old
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/oldbushjobapproval.png

Interesting observations:

1. Fox registers consistently high numbers, Zogby consistently low.
2. Two clear spikes: 911 and Saddam capture. He needs to get Osama,
or he loses in 2004 (Go, Osama, Go! [*])

Also, two very interesting plots:
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

Can you say "value on the dollar"?

And, maybe my favorite:
Loading Image...


Cycling, related, there's also a nice plot of the 1997 BMI
data (Google for the number data -- it's on cyclingnews):
Loading Image...


[*] don't worry, I'm not for terrorism. I don't think terrorism is
driven by individuals, but by political environments, and Bush is
creating the optimal political environment. So the real force
behind terrorism isn't OBL, but GWB. If people realized this,
we'd see an accelerated trend on that plot.

P.S. To keep this topical, the data from which I did the regression
is at:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/tdf.csv

[Dan Connelly]

Post by Dan Connelly
2. Two clear spikes: 911 and Saddam capture. He needs to get Osama,
or he loses in 2004 (Go, Osama, Go! [*])

That is 3 spikes -- the invasion of Iraq, as well.

[Robert Chung]

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by Robert Chung

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bushjobapproval.png

I had to extend the left axis to handle the most recent polls. The old
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/oldbushjobapproval.png

1. Fox registers consistently high numbers, Zogby consistently low.

Most national polls use "adults of voting age." Fox uses "registered"
voters. Zogby uses "likely" voters. In addition, most of the other polls
ask a (binary) approve or disapprove question. Zogby asks a four-part job
rating question as: excellent/good/fair/poor/not sure." What I've plotted
for Zogby is (excellent+good) - (fair+poor).

Post by Dan Connelly
2. Two clear spikes: 911 and Saddam capture. He needs to get Osama,
or he loses in 2004 (Go, Osama, Go! [*])

Third spike is "Mission accomplished."

GWB has never had an extended bounce in his job approval ratings; he's
actually never had a stable flat plateau.

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/exp-percap.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/pct-gdp.png
Can you say "value on the dollar"?

Those focus on disability-adjusted expectation of life at birth, but by
almost any measure the US is smack dab in the middle of the developed
countries (we're certainly better off than third-world countries, but then
that's not who we usually compare ourselves to). The one variable where we
are unambiguously ranked number one is cost. It's not close.

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/fat-vote.png

Ben Weiner pointed out that the Mountain West states have close to the
same slope but a different intercept.

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS]

Post by Robert Chung

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by Robert Chung

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bushjobapproval.png

I had to extend the left axis to handle the most recent polls. The old
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/oldbushjobapproval.png

1. Fox registers consistently high numbers, Zogby consistently low.

Most national polls use "adults of voting age." Fox uses "registered"
voters. Zogby uses "likely" voters. In addition, most of the other polls
ask a (binary) approve or disapprove question. Zogby asks a four-part job
rating question as: excellent/good/fair/poor/not sure." What I've plotted
for Zogby is (excellent+good) - (fair+poor).

Post by Dan Connelly
2. Two clear spikes: 911 and Saddam capture. He needs to get Osama,
or he loses in 2004 (Go, Osama, Go! [*])

Third spike is "Mission accomplished."
GWB has never had an extended bounce in his job approval ratings; he's
actually never had a stable flat plateau.

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/exp-percap.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/pct-gdp.png
Can you say "value on the dollar"?

Those focus on disability-adjusted expectation of life at birth, but by
almost any measure the US is smack dab in the middle of the developed
countries (we're certainly better off than third-world countries, but then
that's not who we usually compare ourselves to). The one variable where we
are unambiguously ranked number one is cost. It's not close.

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/fat-vote.png

Ben Weiner pointed out that the Mountain West states have close to the
same slope but a different intercept.

Guys--
These are simply amazing!! Is the anonymous coward one of you two, or
is he/she truly anonymous?

Steve

[Robert Chung]

Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bushjobapproval.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/exp-percap.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/pct-gdp.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/fat-vote.png

These are simply amazing!! Is the anonymous coward one of you two, or
is he/she truly anonymous?

There's a little bit of anonymous coward in us all.

The plots themselves aren't that amazing -- they're pretty simple. What's
amazing is that so few plots are drawn in a way to make relationships
clear. Well, maybe not amazing; appalling is more like it. Most plots you
see in the newspaper tell you what happened but they hardly ever make you
wonder why it happened.

The idea for the Bush Job Approval plot was shamelessly stolen from
Loading Image...
(since Pollkatz is no longer updating his plots) with the addition of
direct labeling; this is why Dan was able to pick out the consistent
pattern differences between Zogby and Fox. The Pollkatz plot is good
because it tells you what happened in a way that hits you between the
eyes--but see if you can spot the Zogby-Fox difference. The direct
labelled plot is better because it made Dan ask the next logical question:
"what's up with that?" Plots can't always answer "why?" but good ones will
make you curious enough to wonder.

You may have known that the US spends more than most countries on health
but the two plots of life expectancy vs. national expenditures make clear
how unusual the US situation is. Most plots that attempt to do this simply
show a histogram of per capita expenditures with the US way off at the
right, like this: Loading Image.... The
two plots listed above show context for those expenditures, and made Dan
think about how much bang we get for our healthcare buck. That's a good
question. BTW, note how direct labeling adds context that is lacking in
Loading Image....

All of the plots above (plus these two:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/tdf97-bmi.png and
Loading Image...)
use direct labeling to add data context or an extra dimension.

[Steven Bornfeld]

Post by Robert Chung

Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS

Post by Dan Connelly
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bushjobapproval.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/exp-percap.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/pct-gdp.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/fat-vote.png

These are simply amazing!! Is the anonymous coward one of you two, or
is he/she truly anonymous?

There's a little bit of anonymous coward in us all.
The plots themselves aren't that amazing -- they're pretty simple. What's
amazing is that so few plots are drawn in a way to make relationships
clear. Well, maybe not amazing; appalling is more like it. Most plots you
see in the newspaper tell you what happened but they hardly ever make you
wonder why it happened.
The idea for the Bush Job Approval plot was shamelessly stolen from
http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/files/image003.gif
(since Pollkatz is no longer updating his plots) with the addition of
direct labeling; this is why Dan was able to pick out the consistent
pattern differences between Zogby and Fox. The Pollkatz plot is good
because it tells you what happened in a way that hits you between the
eyes--but see if you can spot the Zogby-Fox difference. The direct
"what's up with that?" Plots can't always answer "why?" but good ones will
make you curious enough to wonder.
You may have known that the US spends more than most countries on health
but the two plots of life expectancy vs. national expenditures make clear
how unusual the US situation is. Most plots that attempt to do this simply
show a histogram of per capita expenditures with the US way off at the
right, like this: http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/pct-gdp2.png. The
two plots listed above show context for those expenditures, and made Dan
think about how much bang we get for our healthcare buck. That's a good
question. BTW, note how direct labeling adds context that is lacking in
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/pct-gdp3.png.
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/tdf97-bmi.png and
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/tdf.png)
use direct labeling to add data context or an extra dimension.

Thanks for this. Of course the healthcare spending/life expectancy
plot can be spun any number of ways, but it certainly provokes some of
the right questions.
Thanks for sharing this!

Steve

[Stewart Fleming]

Post by Dan Connelly
1. Fox registers consistently high numbers, Zogby consistently low.
2. Two clear spikes: 911 and Saddam capture. He needs to get Osama,
or he loses in 2004 (Go, Osama, Go! [*])

For best effect, this sticker should be on the _front_ bumper
(like the "Run, Jesse, Run" campaign sticker from years back)

[Tom Kunich]

Post by Tom Kunich
I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the people
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04giroSt5

A perfect example of how artistic Watson is without most people being able
to recognize why.

[Dan Connelly]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the

people

Post by Tom Kunich
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04giroSt5
A perfect example of how artistic Watson is without most people being able
to recognize why.

Well, I'd actually intended to show:
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-009000

(caught by the frames)

But that one:
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-001000

Is also good -- I agree.

Dan

[Tom Kunich]

Brian can find really fine distinction in the laws but somehow misses those
little detailed diferences in Watson's pictures. But that's why some people
are artists and others aren't. I KNOW I can't take a picture and can only
stand in awe of those who can. Some of Graham's work is worthy of the
Cistine Chapel cealing.

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the

people

Post by Tom Kunich
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04giroSt5

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by Tom Kunich
A perfect example of how artistic Watson is without most people being able
to recognize why.

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-009000
(caught by the frames)
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-001000
Is also good -- I agree.
Dan

[matabala]

"Tom Kunich" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:IGfqc.5172$***@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Some of Graham's work is worthy of the

Post by Tom Kunich
Cistine Chapel cealing.

With comments like that, who needs cultur?

[Jeff Jones]

Post by Dan Connelly
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-009000
(caught by the frames)
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-001000
Is also good -- I agree.

But is Watson always behind the lens?

What about this one:

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/edae669c6e575eda86256caa0062fd89/9b
d057445a2b5f3586256e93006593a4?OpenDocument

compared to this one

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage5/s-cunego-c
ambiobici3104

Jeff

[Steven L. Sheffield]

Post by Jeff Jones

Post by Dan Connelly
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-009000
(caught by the frames)
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04giroSt5-001000
Is also good -- I agree.

But is Watson always behind the lens?
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/edae669c6e575eda86256caa0062fd89/9b
d057445a2b5f3586256e93006593a4?OpenDocument
compared to this one
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage5/s-cunego-c
ambiobici3104

Does Graham Watson == Olympia Photo ???

[Jeff Jones]

Post by Steven L. Sheffield
Does Graham Watson == Olympia Photo ???

Nope. Olympia = Roberto Bettini. But quite a bit of sharing goes on between
photographers. I'm not actually sure which one of them took this pic!

Jeff

[Jenko]

"Jeff Jones" wrote...

Post by Jeff Jones
But quite a bit of sharing goes on between
photographers. I'm not actually sure which one of them took this pic!

Talking about that ... I found that Cor Vos has Giro pictures as well ...
http://www.corvos.nl/asp/lib/TheASP.asp?pageID=59&ID=89806
http://www.corvos.nl/asp/lib/TheASP.asp?pageID=59&ID=89809

Jenko

[Benjamin Weiner]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by B. Lafferty
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the people
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.

It's the podium shot, the lighting is what it is. You can ask
whether Watson would have put it up on the web, but that's an
editing question (although, 90% of photography is editing).
Anyway, come on, I like these photographers, and Watson's
great at anticipating the right place and the right angle,
but it's not like he's Cartier-Bresson or Garry Winogrand.

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by B. Lafferty
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the people
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.
It's the podium shot, the lighting is what it is. You can ask
whether Watson would have put it up on the web, but that's an
editing question (although, 90% of photography is editing).
Anyway, come on, I like these photographers, and Watson's
great at anticipating the right place and the right angle,
but it's not like he's Cartier-Bresson or Garry Winogrand.

Interesting to combine C-B with Winogrand; the former finding the decisive
moment with ease and having a fairly high percentage of excellent shots per
roll with the latter compulsively shooting thousdands of garbage frames to
get one great one. When Winogrand hit, he was marvelous.

[Richard Adams]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by B. Lafferty
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the

people

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.
It's the podium shot, the lighting is what it is. You can ask
whether Watson would have put it up on the web, but that's an
editing question (although, 90% of photography is editing).
Anyway, come on, I like these photographers, and Watson's
great at anticipating the right place and the right angle,
but it's not like he's Cartier-Bresson or Garry Winogrand.

Interesting to combine C-B with Winogrand; the former finding the decisive
moment with ease and having a fairly high percentage of excellent shots per
roll with the latter compulsively shooting thousdands of garbage frames to
get one great one. When Winogrand hit, he was marvelous.

The scattergun approach was what I was first taught for
photojournalism: the film is inexpensive and paid for, go use it, take
lots of pictures. The only expensive picture is when you come back
with only one and it's lousy.

At the very least, placement of a podium should give it good natural
lighting, but I have no clue whether the organizers give that the
consideration it deserves. At the Sea Otter the podium had the sun
behind it.

For my pictures of the Cats Hill Classic I considered where the light
was and positioned myself for the best view, not the one that would
keep the most sun off me.

Graham seems to get about most on a motorcycle, but sometimes I swear
the guy must have his own personal helicopter to get all the places he
does.

[B. Lafferty]

"Richard Adams" <***@concentric.net> wrote in message > > Interesting to
combine C-B with Winogrand; the former finding the decisive

Post by Richard Adams

Post by Richard Adams
The scattergun approach was what I was first taught for

photojournalism: the film is inexpensive and paid for, go use it, take
lots of pictures. The only expensive picture is when you come back
with only one and it's lousy.

That was taught by some. But remember, Winogrand was not a photojournalist
in the sense that Cartier-Bresson was. I would liken Winogrand more to
Dianne Arbus or Robert Franck. IIRC, when Winogrand died, he left serveral
thousand rolls of 35mm film shot over many years---all undeveloped. He was
known to be an obsessive-compulsive shooter. The contact sheets of
Cartier-Bresson that I've seen, show a far more deliberate photographer.

As for Watson, IMO, his work became rather stale over the past 5 years or
so. His photos were too often flat (probably due to overuse of fill flash)
and lacking in the raw emotion of a Cor Vos, Sergio Panizza and now Sirotti.
And he ain't no landscape photographer either. But, this season, he seems
to have reverted back to his earlier, more emotive style and has produced
some exceptional images.

[Dan Connelly]

Post by B. Lafferty
As for Watson, IMO, his work became rather stale over the past 5 years or
so. His photos were too often flat (probably due to overuse of fill flash)
and lacking in the raw emotion of a Cor Vos, Sergio Panizza and now Sirotti.
And he ain't no landscape photographer either. But, this season, he seems
to have reverted back to his earlier, more emotive style and has produced
some exceptional images.

Dave Lawrance WAS my favorite, but he hasn't gone stale, he's gone
away. Nice example:

Loading Image...
Loading Image...

No flat lighting here.

Dan

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by B. Lafferty
As for Watson, IMO, his work became rather stale over the past 5 years or
so. His photos were too often flat (probably due to overuse of fill flash)
and lacking in the raw emotion of a Cor Vos, Sergio Panizza and now Sirotti.
And he ain't no landscape photographer either. But, this season, he seems
to have reverted back to his earlier, more emotive style and has produced
some exceptional images.

Dave Lawrance WAS my favorite, but he hasn't gone stale, he's gone
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/tdf2001_1a.jpg
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/millara.jpg
No flat lighting here.
Dan

Nice site. Do I recall correctly that his work was occasionally used by
Cycling Weekly?

[Marlene Blanshay]

Post by Dan Connelly

Post by B. Lafferty
As for Watson, IMO, his work became rather stale over the past 5 years or
so. His photos were too often flat (probably due to overuse of fill flash)
and lacking in the raw emotion of a Cor Vos, Sergio Panizza and now Sirotti.
And he ain't no landscape photographer either. But, this season, he seems
to have reverted back to his earlier, more emotive style and has produced
some exceptional images.

Dave Lawrance WAS my favorite, but he hasn't gone stale, he's gone
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/tdf2001_1a.jpg
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/millara.jpg

I know, what happened to him? His site hasn't been updated in years.

However, great photos. I love some of the ones from the Tour, I think 1992?
Where everyone is sweating and suffering on the Alpe, except Gianni Bugno,
who looks totally unfazed, with his rainbow jersey zipped all the way up!

[Howard Kveck]

Post by Marlene Blanshay

Post by Dan Connelly
Dave Lawrance WAS my favorite, but he hasn't gone stale, he's gone
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/tdf2001_1a.jpg
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/millara.jpg

I know, what happened to him? His site hasn't been updated in years.
However, great photos. I love some of the ones from the Tour, I think 1992?
Where everyone is sweating and suffering on the Alpe, except Gianni Bugno,
who looks totally unfazed, with his rainbow jersey zipped all the way up!

Gianni pretty much always looked totally unfazed. He always seemed to be
able to make it look easy (or, at least, easier than any of the other
riders). Class. That's what he had. Class and talent.

[Marlene Blanshay]

Post by Howard Kveck

Post by Marlene Blanshay

Post by Dan Connelly
Dave Lawrance WAS my favorite, but he hasn't gone stale, he's gone
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/tdf2001_1a.jpg
http://www.cyclingphotos.freeserve.co.uk/bigpic/millara.jpg

I know, what happened to him? His site hasn't been updated in years.
However, great photos. I love some of the ones from the Tour, I think 1992?
Where everyone is sweating and suffering on the Alpe, except Gianni Bugno,
who looks totally unfazed, with his rainbow jersey zipped all the way up!

Gianni pretty much always looked totally unfazed. He always seemed to be
able to make it look easy (or, at least, easier than any of the other
riders). Class. That's what he had. Class and talent.

I think Gilberto Simoni is a big fan of his. Sometimes he makes me think of
Bugno, when he looks totally unfazed. On the Zoncolan,everyone was suffering
and grimacing, and he looked like he wasn't even breathing hard!

That photo makes me think of Seinfeld. "Who does this guy think he is?
"I'm Gianni Bugno!"

[B. Lafferty]

"Richard Adams" <***@concentric.net> wrote in message > The scattergun
approach was what I was first taught for

Post by Richard Adams
photojournalism: the film is inexpensive and paid for, go use it, take
lots of pictures. The only expensive picture is when you come back
with only one and it's lousy.

I just thought of a workshop of Gordon Parks in which he posed a question
for the students. I can't remember it exactly but it went something like
this.

You're a photojournalist and you are at the scene when a young boy is shot
and killed. You have only one frame left in your camera. Do you photograph
the boy or the greiving mother?

[Boyd Speerschneider]

Post by B. Lafferty
You're a photojournalist and you are at the scene when a young boy is
shot and killed. You have only one frame left in your camera. Do you
photograph the boy or the greiving mother?

Why not both?

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Boyd Speerschneider

Post by B. Lafferty
You're a photojournalist and you are at the scene when a young boy is
shot and killed. You have only one frame left in your camera. Do you
photograph the boy or the greiving mother?

Why not both?

You have only one frame left in the camera. The boy and mother are not
positioned so that she can be photographed with her dead son. You can only
photograpy one of them. That's the problem set out by Parks. Who would you
photograph and why?

[Steven Bornfeld]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Boyd Speerschneider

Post by B. Lafferty
You're a photojournalist and you are at the scene when a young boy is
shot and killed. You have only one frame left in your camera. Do you
photograph the boy or the greiving mother?

Why not both?

You have only one frame left in the camera. The boy and mother are not
positioned so that she can be photographed with her dead son. You can only
photograpy one of them. That's the problem set out by Parks. Who would you
photograph and why?

Did Parks ever work for the National Enquirer back when it was a
slice-and-dice journal?

Steve

[B. Lafferty]

Take a look at http://www.genesisartline.com/parks2.htm He was the first
African-American photographer for Life.

Post by Steven Bornfeld

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Boyd Speerschneider

Post by B. Lafferty
You're a photojournalist and you are at the scene when a young boy is
shot and killed. You have only one frame left in your camera. Do you
photograph the boy or the greiving mother?

Why not both?

You have only one frame left in the camera. The boy and mother are not
positioned so that she can be photographed with her dead son. You can only
photograpy one of them. That's the problem set out by Parks. Who would you
photograph and why?

Did Parks ever work for the National Enquirer back when it was a
slice-and-dice journal?
Steve

[Steven Bornfeld]

Post by B. Lafferty
Take a look at http://www.genesisartline.com/parks2.htm He was the first
African-American photographer for Life.

Actually, I was somewhat familiar with Parks. I figured him for
photographing the mother--the obvious choice (unless you worked for the
Enquirer in the old "I cut out her heart and stomped on it" days, before
it became a celebrity rag.)
This is not to disparage Parks (nor the Enquirer, for that matter. An
ex-brother-in-law of my wife's worked for a time at the Enquirer, and
said they were terrific to work for).

Steve

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Steven Bornfeld

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Boyd Speerschneider

Post by B. Lafferty
You're a photojournalist and you are at the scene when a young boy is
shot and killed. You have only one frame left in your camera. Do you
photograph the boy or the greiving mother?

Why not both?

You have only one frame left in the camera. The boy and mother are not
positioned so that she can be photographed with her dead son. You can

only

Post by Steven Bornfeld

Post by B. Lafferty
photograpy one of them. That's the problem set out by Parks. Who would

you

Post by Steven Bornfeld

Post by B. Lafferty
photograph and why?

Did Parks ever work for the National Enquirer back when it was a
slice-and-dice journal?
Steve

[Jeff Jones]

Post by B. Lafferty
You have only one frame left in the camera. The boy and mother are not
positioned so that she can be photographed with her dead son. You can only
photograpy one of them. That's the problem set out by Parks. Who would you
photograph and why?

I'd shoot the mother.

Jeff (sorry)

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Jeff Jones

Post by B. Lafferty
You have only one frame left in the camera. The boy and mother are not
positioned so that she can be photographed with her dead son. You can

only

Post by B. Lafferty
photograpy one of them. That's the problem set out by Parks. Who would

you

Post by B. Lafferty
photograph and why?

I'd shoot the mother.
Jeff (sorry)

I agree, as did Parks.

[BadPauly]

Post by Jeff Jones
I'd shoot the mother.
Jeff (sorry)

And that's the Cyclingnews ethic we strive to reach each day.

Paul

[i***@capcha.co.za]

www.Facebook.com/capchaphotography

...need I say more!

[Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·]

Post by i***@capcha.co.za
www.Facebook.com/capchaphotography
...need I say more!

Yes you do if you expect me to click on the link. I, like most folks, don't
bother to click on *mystery* links where there is no explanation given
at all as to why we would bother clicking on some unexplained link that
might even bore us to death.

So, get a clue, and stop being so stupid and rude.

[Benjamin Weiner]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Benjamin Weiner
editing question (although, 90% of photography is editing).
Anyway, come on, I like these photographers, and Watson's
great at anticipating the right place and the right angle,
but it's not like he's Cartier-Bresson or Garry Winogrand.

Interesting to combine C-B with Winogrand; the former finding the decisive
moment with ease and having a fairly high percentage of excellent shots per
roll with the latter compulsively shooting thousdands of garbage frames to
get one great one. When Winogrand hit, he was marvelous.

Yes, two extremes of method, for two photographers whose strength
is (IMO) crystallizing a particular moment. As compared to say
Robert Frank, Helen Levitt or William Klein, whose work seems similar
to Winogrand's in parts, but a bit more to the atmospheric side
and less immediately reliant on capturing the critical moment.
(C-B being more of a photojournalist and the others closer to
art photographers with a journo background. Arbus's work, more
static and posed, is in yet another category, perhaps influenced
by her commercial photography and even linked to Avedon, if only
posthumously.)

Anecdote from a book: Winogrand was speaking to an audience of
students and one asked "How long did it take you to make that
photograph?" Winogrand thought for a while and answered,
"1/125th of a second."

Graham Watson's website also has some interesting personal
viewpoints - see the most recent article's thoughts on Cipollini:

http://www.grahamwatson.com/news/grahamsnotes.html

[B. Lafferty]

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Benjamin Weiner
editing question (although, 90% of photography is editing).
Anyway, come on, I like these photographers, and Watson's
great at anticipating the right place and the right angle,
but it's not like he's Cartier-Bresson or Garry Winogrand.

Interesting to combine C-B with Winogrand; the former finding the decisive
moment with ease and having a fairly high percentage of excellent shots per
roll with the latter compulsively shooting thousdands of garbage frames to
get one great one. When Winogrand hit, he was marvelous.

Yes, two extremes of method, for two photographers whose strength
is (IMO) crystallizing a particular moment. As compared to say
Robert Frank, Helen Levitt or William Klein, whose work seems similar
to Winogrand's in parts, but a bit more to the atmospheric side
and less immediately reliant on capturing the critical moment.
(C-B being more of a photojournalist and the others closer to
art photographers with a journo background. Arbus's work, more
static and posed, is in yet another category, perhaps influenced
by her commercial photography and even linked to Avedon, if only
posthumously.)

In the early 1970s I had a friend, a former professor in college, who moved
into an apartment in the artist's coop on Bethune Street. His apartment
opened up when the prior tenant committed suicide in it.

Post by Benjamin Weiner
Anecdote from a book: Winogrand was speaking to an audience of
students and one asked "How long did it take you to make that
photograph?" Winogrand thought for a while and answered,
"1/125th of a second."

Nice to revist that one. Thanks.

Post by Benjamin Weiner
Graham Watson's website also has some interesting personal
http://www.grahamwatson.com/news/grahamsnotes.html

Watson seems to be stringing a narrative tofether with his captions these
days. He can be interesting.

[Tom Kunich]

Post by Benjamin Weiner
Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.
It's the podium shot, the lighting is what it is.

Psst, have you ever heard of a fill?

[Benjamin Weiner]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Benjamin Weiner
Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.
It's the podium shot, the lighting is what it is.

Psst, have you ever heard of a fill?

Fill flash is another one of those once-great inventions that
have become a cliche through overuse, like Oakleys. If you're
not careful, it makes everything look like a well-exposed but
mediocre wedding picture.

Two podium examples from GW's website:

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04rutasolSt2-011000
(Even GW has the dreaded nose-crossing-lips shadow. But so what?)

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04romandieSt4-018000
(overcooked flash, probably necessary to light the face under
the cap but gives the dreaded shadow halo)

Ben
Only takes lousy amateur pictures at weddings

[Tom Kunich]

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Benjamin Weiner
Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.
It's the podium shot, the lighting is what it is.

Psst, have you ever heard of a fill?

Fill flash is another one of those once-great inventions that
have become a cliche through overuse, like Oakleys. If you're
not careful, it makes everything look like a well-exposed but
mediocre wedding picture.
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04rutasolSt2-011000
(Even GW has the dreaded nose-crossing-lips shadow. But so what?)

It makes Eric look like he has a snoze like Trdina.

Post by Benjamin Weiner
http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04romandieSt4-018000
(overcooked flash, probably necessary to light the face under
the cap but gives the dreaded shadow halo)

Can't say that I object or even notice that shadow and the subject is clear.

[Benjamin Weiner]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,...

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04rutasolSt2-011000
(Even GW has the dreaded nose-crossing-lips shadow. But so what?)

It makes Eric look like he has a snoze like Trdina.

One can only admire the restraint of someone who looks at
this picture to focus on the aesthetic qualities of Zabel's nose.
Or perhaps "admire" isn't quite the word I was looking for.

Ben

P.S. Argh, Archimedes, not Aristotle! Simple machines and
all that. Thanks, Curtis. Aristotle would have said that it
was in the nature of the earth to be moved ...

[Carl Sundquist]

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich
It makes Eric look like he has a snoze like Trdina.

One can only admire the restraint of someone who looks at
this picture to focus on the aesthetic qualities of Zabel's nose.
Or perhaps "admire" isn't quite the word I was looking for.
Ben

Here's a profile shot

Loading Image...

[Richard Adams]

Post by Carl Sundquist

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich
It makes Eric look like he has a snoze like Trdina.

One can only admire the restraint of someone who looks at
this picture to focus on the aesthetic qualities of Zabel's nose.
Or perhaps "admire" isn't quite the word I was looking for.
Ben

Here's a profile shot
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/00/07/07/sport/news/zabel-torte_.jpg

Cute, was that his or his son's birthday? Looks like just before the
race, as he's still got his earpiece in and hasn't got the sweat and
dirt from the road all over his face.

[Carl Sundquist]

Post by Richard Adams

Post by Carl Sundquist
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/00/07/07/sport/news/zabel-torte_.jpg

Cute, was that his or his son's birthday? Looks like just before the
race, as he's still got his earpiece in and hasn't got the sweat and
dirt from the road all over his face.

The '30' on the cake might be a clue.

[Dan Connelly]

Post by Carl Sundquist

Post by Richard Adams

Post by Carl Sundquist
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/00/07/07/sport/news/zabel-torte_.jpg

Cute, was that his or his son's birthday? Looks like just before the
race, as he's still got his earpiece in and hasn't got the sweat and
dirt from the road all over his face.

The '30' on the cake might be a clue.

His son looks good for his age.

[Richard Adams]

Post by Carl Sundquist

Post by Richard Adams

Post by Carl Sundquist
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/00/07/07/sport/news/zabel-torte_.jpg

Cute, was that his or his son's birthday? Looks like just before the
race, as he's still got his earpiece in and hasn't got the sweat and
dirt from the road all over his face.

The '30' on the cake might be a clue.

Ah, didn't see it. I knew EZ's bday was during the Toor.

[Tom Kunich]

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Benjamin Weiner

Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,...

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04rutasolSt2-011000
(Even GW has the dreaded nose-crossing-lips shadow. But so what?)

It makes Eric look like he has a snoze like Trdina.

One can only admire the restraint of someone who looks at
this picture to focus on the aesthetic qualities of Zabel's nose.
Or perhaps "admire" isn't quite the word I was looking for.

Everyone knows that the best looking podium girls are by FAR in the Vuelta.
It really doesn't bear comment does it?

[Curtis L. Russell]

Post by Benjamin Weiner
Poor Aristotle, what a piker! Had he a lever and a place to stand,
he would have moved the earth - yet in the world according to Tom,
Graham Watson could have moved the Sun itself.

Archimedes. Well, I guess if Archimedes was there to explain it,
Aristotle could do it too. I figure his first impulse would be to
rationalize it away...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Phil H]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is

better

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
than any of Watson's work
there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

:)

I figure that Graham wouldn't have shadows across the faces of the people
he's trying to photograph. Wouldn't you think so as well?

You mean he is so awesome he can make the sun not shine. He must be a God!

[Tom Kunich]

Post by B. Lafferty

Post by Dan Connelly
From the Giro, please show an example of a Sirotti photo which is better
than any of Watson's work there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage7/6

Do you know what "good" means in relation to a photograph?

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS]

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?
He chooses not to cover the second week of the Giro in order to cover some
no-name french race all because his boy LA will be there.
WTF?
I'm guessing its all about the bling-bling,

Isn't that a Woody Guthrie song? (If ya don't have the bling, bling,
bling..."

Steve


as he can probably sell more

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
photos of LA (to the mainstream press and others) than of the Giro.
What a sad, sad state of affairs.
- Boyd "missing the Giro pics" S.

[K. J. Papai]

Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?
He chooses not to cover the second week of the Giro in order to cover some
no-name french race all because his boy LA will be there.
WTF?
I'm guessing its all about the bling-bling,

Isn't that a Woody Guthrie song? (If ya don't have the bling, bling,
bling..."

CYPRESS HILL ("Bling, BLing")

-Ken

Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Steve

[Gooserider]

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?

Maybe Graham sells more Lance pics and posters than any other?

[Boyd Speerschneider]

Post by Gooserider

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?

Maybe Graham sells more Lance pics and posters than any other?

Maybe you need to read more than just the first line of my post?

[Gooserider]

Post by Boyd Speerschneider

Post by Gooserider

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?

Maybe Graham sells more Lance pics and posters than any other?

Maybe you need to read more than just the first line of my post?

So you answered your own question? Nice....

[Richard Adams]

Post by Boyd Speerschneider
Is it just me or is Graham Watson on LA's nuts?
He chooses not to cover the second week of the Giro in order to cover some
no-name french race all because his boy LA will be there.
WTF?
I'm guessing its all about the bling-bling, as he can probably sell more
photos of LA (to the mainstream press and others) than of the Giro.
What a sad, sad state of affairs.
- Boyd "missing the Giro pics" S.

You have to figure the opportunity for photographers to make some
serious dough doesn't come along very often. That Graham's books can
be found in book barns, across the US, is some indication he's made a
good business decision.

One thing's for sure, after LA retires we won't have to look far for
pictures of his glory days.